Talk:Ivan Asen II

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Untitled

This page was voted on for deletion at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Ivan II of Bulgaria. The consensus was to keep it. dbenbenn | talk 05:25, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Should this article be linking to a foreign language, apparently facist website?

The website is not fascist, it is nationalist, but that's not the question - the link is because of the map, which is neither fascist, nor nationalist. VMORO 14:46, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)

An excellent article, vastly better than before. I have added a couple of links: one or two more, for relations-by-marriage, could be added towards the end. Andrew Dalby http://perso.wanadoo.fr/dalby/ 11:55, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bulgaria?

although the latter had expanded his control over various Bulgarian territories, including Ohrid.

I do not understand. How could Bulgaria conquer... Bulgaria??? --PaxEquilibrium 21:58, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bulgarian in the ethnic sense, I changed it to Bulgarian-inhabited to make it clear :) Todor →Bozhinov 19:53, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ioan Asan

what about his Vlach origins? Wasn't his kingdom known as the Vlach-Bulgarian or Romanian-Bulgarian Tzarate?

Not really. There's a big difference between the pittiful Romanian attempts of stealing Bulgarian history ('cause they don't have one of their own) and history itself. By the way, Ioan Asen's dinasty might as well be of Cuman or Russo-Cuman origins. Fletch —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.228.39.27 (talk) 00:28, 11 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No Vlach origin... Perhaps a cuman lead, but still this only comes from one theory that Tsar Asen and Tsar Petar are from bulgaro-cuman origin... Tsar Ivan/Joan Asen is from bulgarian origin, you can see that from his inscriptions as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.90.0.97 (talk) 07:35, 23 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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Proposal for Portrait Selection: Ivan Asen II

Hi everyone,

For the article on Ivan Asen II, we have two portrait options:

Option 1: A portrait from the Zograf Monastery on Mount Athos, dated 1817. - File:G danchov ivan asen.jpg - Wikimedia Commons
Option 2: A portrait of Tsar Ivan Asen II by G. Danchoff. File:Ivan-asen-II-zograf-portrait.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

I propose we either

Prioritize the one that best aligns with the article’s historical focus and context, or
Include both, using the monastery portrait as the main image while the modern depiction provides additional perspective in the article body.

Your feedback is appreciated! Nikolay.rusev (talk) 02:58, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Both portraits are more or less Romantic 19th-century depictions of the Tsar who ruled centuries before. Any of them could illustrate section "Legacy", but they would be strange in the infobox. Borsoka (talk) 05:04, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, Borsoka, for your input. I understand the concern regarding the Romanticized nature of these portraits. However, I’d like to point out that a similar approach has been used for other rulers, such as Simeon I of Bulgaria, whose infobox features a modern-era statue despite his rule in the 10th century.

Considering this precedent, I believe we could use one of the portraits—preferably the Zograf Monastery version—in the infobox. It provides historical and cultural value, even if it is a later artistic interpretation. The other portrait by G. Danchoff could then be placed in the “Legacy” section for additional context.

Please let me know what you think!

Appreciate your input in this Nikolay.rusev (talk) 13:12, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think the proposed change would not be an improvement. You may want to request for comments on the issue before changing the picture. Borsoka (talk) 13:20, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Understood. No changes will be made until agreement. Nikolay.rusev (talk) 13:32, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mind helping on the request since I have not requested this before?

Thank you. Nikolay.rusev (talk) 13:34, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

See Wikipedia:RFCOPEN. Borsoka (talk) 13:38, 11 January 2025 (UTC) Alternatively, you can request a third opinion because only we are discussing the issue. Borsoka (talk) 13:42, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Request for Comment: Use of Portraits in the Ivan Asen II Article

Hello,

I’m reaching out to gather wider input regarding the use of two 19th-century portraits of Tsar Ivan Asen II in the article. The two options are:

1. A portrait from the Zograf Monastery on Mount Athos (dated 1817) (File:G danchov ivan asen.jpg)

2. A portrait of Ivan Asen II by G. Danchoff (File:Ivan-asen-II-zograf-portrait.jpg)

Both portraits are later interpretations of the Tsar, similar to how a modern-era statue of Simeon I of Bulgaria is used in his infobox, despite his rule in the 10th century.

My proposal is to:

• Use the Zograf Monastery portrait in the infobox, as it is more historically significant.

• Include the Danchov portrait in the “Legacy” section to provide additional perspective on the Tsar’s modern artistic depictions.

I’m open to other suggestions or a consensus on whether either portrait is suitable for the infobox at all. Your feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you! Nikolay.rusev (talk) 13:46, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Link to Option 1: https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:G_danchov_ivan_asen.jpg

link to Option 2: https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ivan-asen-II-zograf-portrait.jpg Nikolay.rusev (talk) 17:54, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I am against pushing modern pictures (19-20th century) into the infobox. Jingiby (talk) 18:04, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This is clearly not a RfC. You would need to read WP:RFC in order to initiate a RfC, so that other editors can comment on the issue and in that case you would not need a third opinion. A third opinion is requested at WP:30. StephenMacky1 (talk) 18:40, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]